>> Allyson Tenney: OK.
So good afternoon everybody.
I hope everyone had an enjoyable lunch
and got to go outside and explore some
of the close-by places or even get into
Bethesda and the Bethesda Row area.
So this afternoon, we have our panel on testing.
We have some representatives from independent
laboratories discussing issues seen
with testing.
We have three speakers this
afternoon during this session.
Our first speaker is Louann Spirito.
Louann Spirito is Director of Technical
Support Softlines at SGS Consumer and Retail
where she leads a team to develop comprehensive
testing programs, performance specification,
and provides regulatory testing
guidance to global US clients.
She has a Bachelor of Science in
Textiles from University of Rhode Island
and over 20 years experience in
the textile and apparel industries.
She has previously worked for US testing
company as a textile lab supervisor.
She worked as a quality assurance manager for
AMC and Calvin Klein, and was VP of quality
and production at Frederick
Atkins, a New York buying Office.
Louann is an active member
of AATCC and ASTM and sits
on several technical committees
in these associations.
She is also an active member of the
Product Safety Committee of AAFA
and she chairs the SGS Global
Competency Support Center.
Louann is a frequent presenter at industry
seminars and conducts training workshops
for apparel and footwear testing.
Our second speaker this afternoon
is Pratik Ichhaporia.
Pratik is a frequent speaker
and author on quality,
safety and environmental issues affecting
the textiles, toys and hardlines industries.
In his capacity as director of technical
services, Pratik provides counsel
to Intertek customers about compliance
with and changes to regulations related
to consumer product safety, chemical
management, and harmful substances.
He is an active member of ASTM Committee D13
on Textiles and F15 on Consumer Products.
He holds a PhD in Fiber and Polymer Science from
North Carolina State University and a Master's
of Science degree in Fiber and Polymer
Science from Clemson University.
Our third speaker this afternoon
is Ellen Roaldi.
Ellen is a senior technical consulting
specialist in the Softlines area and has been
with Bureau Veritas Consumer
Products Services for 25 years.
In her current position, Ellen is
responsible for providing support globally
for clients, as well as internal operations.
This includes training clients and staff in
testing theory and methodology, consulting,
auditing and advising on technical information,
reviewing and authoring procedural client
manuals and interpreting test results.
Ellen holds a Bachelor of Science in
Textiles from Philadelphia University.
She is a member of AAFA, ASTM International,
AATCC and the Canadian General Standards Board,
Canadian Apparel Federation
and the International Bedding
and Law Officials and the ISO US secretary.
Ellen also is the designated trainer for ASTM
training courses for Apparel Flammability
and Children's Sleepwear Compliance.
Ellen also serves on the Industry
Advisory Board for the Textile Program
at the State University College at Buffalo.
So we have three distinguished
speakers during this session.
I'm going to turn it over to Louann.
Thank you.
>> Louann Spirito: Thank you.
OK. So, we will know that this regulation
for children sleepwear has been
regulated for many, many years.
However, there are still lots and lots
of challenges with this regulation.
You know, part of it is due to
interpretation of the regulation itself.
There were always new developments in styling.
So, you know, one day we see all
of a sudden a type of garment
that we haven't really seen before.
We see these, you know, sleep sacks that they
use for young children, then you see sleep sacks
with no bottom, just legs hanging out, you know,
it's always a different kind of a style coming
up that sort of challenges how are
we going to categorize this product.
Is it going to be a general wearing
apparel, is it going to be a sleepwear style?
And then there's also, you know,
innovative uses of fibers and materials.
So there's a constant change in the way that,
you know, products are being made and sold,
and the regulations at the
time when these were written,
some of these things probably weren't
even, you know, in play or considered.
So, as a testing laboratory, we get
lots of questions about the regulation
and sometimes it's about
the testing that's done,
sometimes it's interpreting the
styling of what needs to be tested.
So, what I did was I thought maybe
we should just talk about some
of the frequently asked questions that
we get and provide some of the answers.
So, if I'm testing a finished garment.
So this is one of the issues that
happens is our clients says, "I have a--
I just want to test the finished garment.
I don't want to have to go through all
these testing stages," because in the end,
that's what's going to get
tested is the finished garment.
So the question is, why do the fabric and
prototype samples also have to be tested?
So basically, in order to ensure that the fabric
and the garment construction are acceptable
before the production begins, each fabric
and different seam type and trim that's
used in the production has to be tested.
So if you have a fabric that doesn't pass,
it really doesn't make any sense to go
into production and test-- and make your
whole production and then test it and find
out that the fabric is failing because the
whole production will have to be discarded.
So it's only practical that you
would test it sort of in stages.
So if you're selecting a fabric that's not
really suitable for children sleepwear,
there's no point in making up the garment.
So when you have something like
100% cotton that's not treated,
if the designer doesn't really understand
and that's the fabric they choose,
it's never going to pass the test.
So it's important that you select the fabrics
that are going to work with the test method.
So in order to verify that the
fabric that you select is correct,
it has to be tested preproduction.
And the same is true for the seams and the
trims, because the sewing thread that you use,
the stitches per inch, the
type of seam that you use
in the garment has a big impact
on how the sample will burn.
So even though the fabric passes the test,
depending on how it's stitched,
it may no longer pass.
So it gives you an opportunity before you go
into production to make any changes that need
to be changed, so you may need to change
the sewing thread or the stitches per inch
that you're using or even maybe
the seam configuration itself.
And then of course the production
garments have to be tested
because this is verifying the results that
you had the in the pre-production testing.
So, you should have all passing results
before you get to the production stage.
So once you're there, you want to verify
now that, you know, that the actual samples
that are being made are going to pass the test,
because you know that there's a lot of things
that happened during a production.
So lots of changes occurred not necessarily
intentional but things can happen,
things can change that can
affect the ultimate outcome.
OK. So another question is, does every
FPU have to be laundered 50 times?
So if you have multiple FPUs
in the same production or style
and you have no flame retardant finish on the
fabric or any chemicals added to the fiber
or yarns to make it flame retardant,
then you test the first FPU
in the original and after 50 launderings.
And if that passes, then the second
and subsequent FPUs do not
have to be laundered 50 times.
So it's only the first, the first one.
Now if you have a flame retardant
finish or chemicals that are applied,
then all the FPUs must be tested in the
original state and after 50 launderings.
OK, another question.
Can fabrics of different colors or
different print patterns be tested
in the same FPU and GPU?
And we had talked about this
a little before already.
But in order to include different
colors or different print patterns,
you have to test three samples
of each one to confirm
that the performance is equivalent
to each other.
So, they can be treated as one
FPU with some testing involved.
But however, you cannot combine the solid
colors and the print patterns in the same FPU.
Do the three samples that get tested of
each different color or print pattern need
to be laundered 50 times or can they
be considered as subsequent FPUs?
They have the same base fabric but now
you've got the different prints on it
or different colors, but the
fabric itself is actually the same.
So, in order to show equivalence in the
performance, three samples of each color
or print have to be tested in the original
state to show that there's no difference.
So then the colors and the prints
can be considered as subsequent FPUs.
And on the GPU testing it's actually the same.
So, different solid colors or different print
patterns of the same fabric can be included
in the same GPU as long as
three or more samples are tested
and don't show any significant differences.
And again, they cannot be combined.
So the solids and the print patterns
have to be treated separately.
OK, this is a biggie because as a laboratory,
you know, we're always asking for samples
to test because we need something to work with.
And the clients are very reluctant
to send too many samples in.
So they're always asking, well,
how many samples do I have to send?
One thing is they have to know how many
they need to send because we don't--
They don't want to slow down the process.
So if we don't-- If they send in half as many
as they need, we're not going to do anything
with it until we get enough to work with.
So it's not a simple answer.
So unfortunately, we would like to be able to
say, oh send us five samples and that's good.
But there's a lot of different factors that
are involved in how many you need to test.
So the amount of units in
your production is one factor.
The amount of fabric that you're using in
the total production is another factor.
And also the size of the garments plays a part
in how many samples you actually
need to do the testing.
So, to try to make it simpler
to understand how to figure
out because I can't give you a set number
which I know is what people would like to hear.
So you have to be able to figure out
how many samples you need to test.
So we have this night gown.
So this is our Sleepwear Style B5698.
We're making 24,000 garments.
Two yards of fabric is required per garment.
So the total fabric amount is 48,000 yards.
So each FPU is 5000 yards of fabric.
So based on that, the number of FPU
test that have to be done are 10.
So we're doing 10 FPU tests for this production.
So now, you need four yards
of fabric for the testing.
So you have to take a sample
from the beginning of the FPU
and another sample from the end of the FPU.
And it has to be tested, the
first FPU has to be tested
in the original and then after 50 launderings.
And one sample is 5 specimens.
OK. So now we have the prototype seams
and trims that have to be tested.
So let's assume that we tested the fabric
and everything passed and it's good.
So now we're going on to the next
stage of the prototype seams and trims.
So, you know, we still have our 24,000 garments.
We did our 10 FPU tests.
So the seams in this garment are
overlock seams and single needle seams.
So each different type of seam has to be tested.
The trim we have rickrack and we have a bow.
So we need to do four prototype
tests because we have two types
of seams and we have two types of trims.
So the total prototype test
is going to equal four.
So for the seams, we need to have
15 specimens of each seam type
and 15 specimens of each trim type.
And then of course, you know,
I'm oversimplifying it
because when you do the testing,
depending on how the specimens burn,
we may have to test additional specimen.
So the worst thing that happens is you
send in a very limited number of samples
and then the way the sample burns, it
requires us doing additional burns.
And now we don't have any
specimens to work with.
So it stops the whole testing process because
we can't continue with it and it's a big delay
in you getting your test results.
So it's really important that
when you submit the samples,
it's not even just the amount
that you try to calculate.
You have to also anticipate
that if you have samples
that burn the full length,
more have to be tested.
So we need to have those actual samples
readily available to do the testing.
And that's the same for the fabric stage also.
So now in the production garment
testing, we have all our prototypes done.
Now, the maximum number of
units in a GPU is 6000.
So the fact that we're using--
We are making 24,000 garments,
we need four GPU tests for
this particular style.
So we have to test three samples of the
longest seam type, so that's 15 specimens.
So whatever is the longest seam type
in that style is what has to be tested
and we cannot take more than
five specimens per garment.
And we only test in the original state
if the fabric was tested 50 times.
If the fabric was not washed 50 times, then
the garments have to be washed 50 times.
OK. So this is just a little
example of how this works.
So in this style, we have the longest
seam is the side seam on the top.
And we can only cut one specimen from the
side seam because of the size of the garment.
It's only big enough for us
to get one specimen from.
So we need a total of nine garments.
So we need the three samples
and we need five from each one.
And you cannot mix specimens from samples.
So whatever your sample set is,
all the specimens from that sample
set have to be tested as one group.
So you could see for the
third one is an extra one.
But we can't use that one
in that sample because--
I mean we can't use it in the next
group because it has to come--
They will have to come from the same set.
So a total of nine are needed.
And this is not counting if we
have to burn extra specimen.
So we actually need more
than that because if any
of them burn the full length,
we have to do additional test.
Now in this case, the longest
seam is the side seam.
But the side seam is long enough for us
to get two specimens from each side seam.
So in this case, we only need six garments.
So you could see that it is not a simple answer
to how many garments do I need for testing
because it depends on the type of
garment, the size of the garment,
if it's a very small size,
you can't get a long seam.
You may need to take to get more.
So that's how we ended up with
nine garments in the other example.
OK. Trim. So we know that we have to do the
trim like the rickrack and the trim that,
you know, is all over the garment.
But then we have some trims that
are smaller like bows and appliqués.
The trims definitely have to be tested.
If it's a small trim, then
it is considered exempt.
So if it's less than two inches in the longest
dimension, it's not tested unless it is enough
of it that is over 20 square inches in the item.
So when you have on that night gown
in that example where we had the bow,
the bow look like it was more than two inches.
So that bow was counted in as having
to have prototype testing done on it.
Things like zippers and buttons, elastics,
you know, functional structural parts
of the sleepwear do not have to be tested.
So that's all I have here.
And I don't know if these questions if you want
to wait until we do the question and answer?
OK. Thank you.
>> Pratik Ichhaporia: Good afternoon, everyone.
Thanks, Allyson for the introduction and Mary
for the invitation to discuss our, you know,
one of the favorite topics of sleepwear
flammability and normally today
but I think your support from you and
your staff throughout the answering a lot
of questions that we filled.
As Louann mentioned, you know, we get a lot
of questions from brands and manufacturers.
So as a lot of times as the frontlines,
especially a lot of times not necessarily
as they are hesitant to answer-- ask questions
because a lot of times they are working
with their product design and development stage
and so they may not necessarily
have all the pieces of the puzzle.
They might be thinking about certain designs.
And so, you know, as Louann
mentioned when they are innovating,
not necessarily making the same type of garment
because you see fast fashion where people want
to have newer styles, newer type of
garments, that raises questions in terms of--
especially with the sleepwear, is it going
to be tight fitting, especially it comes
into more tight fitting arena where
people are always trying to, you know,
mend it but not break it type of thing.
So they're trying to, you know,
just get to the edge of things.
So there are always questions in terms
of interpretation and we thank Mary for,
you know, always being available for us.
Thanks. So we'll talk generally as some
about the tight fitting sleepwears,
some overall comments about what the
types, tight as well as loose fitting.
Some case examples of the designs that
we've encountered where we had to, you know,
we received those questions specifically
about classifications in terms
of how would we classify what would be the
applicable requirements, so and so forth,
and then finally with some recommendations.
So we would just start off in terms of the LOAs
and these were broken down specifically just
for the sleepwear for the last calendar year,
as well as for the first
three quarters of this year.
And as you can see, there are I think the total
LOAs for this period were about 2800 or so.
So sleepwear were about give or take 3%.
The majority of it was for lead.
The key criteria to pay attention here is
not, you know, that there were violations just
for the flammability standard itself
but there were also for the labeling,
as well as for policy and other aspects as well.
So the key is definitely meet all the safety
requirements but, you know, in addition to that,
we also want to make sure that
you meet this dimensional as well
as all the other requirements that
are applicable to the standard.
Of these LOAs, 60% were-- Led
to recall, 11% were stop sale.
About 30% were for correct future production and
most of the correct future production I think--
which I think Mary alluded to earlier was,
you know, some of the minor things which want
to be labeling or things on those
lines which could be all fixed.
The tight fitting sleepwear, just
generally commenting on this,
I think in terms of as you start off
with any product, first and foremost,
the most important question
is the classification.
And this goes for I think any product
that is going to be offered for sale
as a consumer product because as soon as you
put something into a children's product bucket,
you have a lot more additional set of
responsibility that you have to meet.
With apparel, it's a lot more
easier because you go by the sizes.
So at least it's relatively easier,
you're not going to the intended use
and the age, and those type of things.
But still, it's very critical
in terms of the classification.
Is it a children's product?
Then you get into the apparel.
Then you say, oh is it really children's
sleepwear and what type of children's sleepwear.
Because if you misclassify something as tight
fitting which would have been loose fitting
by based on its design, then as has been
referred to earlier, you are using 100% cotton,
something without finishes,
or rayon in certain instances,
those fabrics are not really
going meet the requirement.
So first and foremost, understand
the classification
because that is going to
drive these requirements.
And again, we are talking federal but
you also have state requirements as well.
So if you do have loose fitting or some of
those things, you also have to think about lot
of the chemical restrictions
that might be coming
through federal agencies
as EPA or state regulators.
Once you get to the design, create
specifications not only of the, you know,
the dimensions of the garment but also in
terms of the size, what are the tolerances
that you might have around those?
So whenever you are allowing
those, building those,
make sure you have enough
safety margin built in.
Because even if someone exceed some-- those
tolerances, you know that you will still be
within the state, you know, still be
able to meet the applicable requirements
for the dimensional specifications.
The other aspects are especially when you
get into the loose fitting area and things
like those where in terms of the fabric
classification, construction of the fabric,
what type of fabric are they
using, content of the fabric,
net versus woven versus transparent,
all those type of information.
And loose fitting, you also get a little bit
more involved because you don't only think
about the fabric and the specification
but also the sewing threads
and things like that that you are using.
Not just the type of thread
but also the thread count.
Sometimes it might be the,
you know, the type of twist
or twist per inch could lead
to differing results.
If someone is using lubricant so that the
thread doesn't break during sewing operations,
that could influence or lead to
variability in the testing results.
So when you are creating
specification, create detail, spec,
because if you are not governing
what they have to use,
that means that you are giving them
the freedom to choose otherwise.
So that's the easier sort of look at it.
Once you create this specification saying
here's what we want to manufacture,
here is what we will use to make these
products, evaluate the manufacturers in terms
of what are their capabilities
and can they make these products,
have they been making these for a while?
Is it something new that they have?
If you have tolerances around your spec,
do they have appropriate controls in place
where they will be able to meet those specs?
Because if you can create a spec but
if there is no way to quality correct
or evaluate those specs, if they don't
have a way to control those specs,
you know that there is going to
be variability and you might have
to do a lot more interventions to make sure
that, you know, your production is going
to be able to meet the requirements.
And think about it from the larger
perspective of children's products,
the 1107 testing and certification rule.
When you are creating your reasonable
testing program, you are creating it for lead
and phthalates and if it's for under four
years of age, three years and younger,
and then you're creating for flammability
testing, do also something similar
for the tight fitting sleepwear in terms of the
number of interventions that you might perform.
You know, Mary alluded to like 10 is the number.
And I mean say that that's probably
maybe a good number to go rather
than just taking one snapshot saying here is
what it is, because if you measure something,
a lot of times, you might
have measured something
at the pre-production or
front of the production.
You probably didn't take
something in the middle or the end.
And so if you manufacture it over
a period of time of days or weeks,
things could have shifted
from center to up or low.
So how are you accounting for those?
How are you accommodating for those changes?
So take snapshots and if you are taking
snapshots, take it along the production,
not just that one end of it just to get a
representative sampling of those things.
So, you know, build those things in.
And then again, bring statistical sampling.
And I think the other point was that
just about the specifications I think
where now the ASTM D1355 has the standard
for the sizes, and I think because Department
of Commerce gave that up because it was
going to-- getting to the private sector,
so I think that might be something by reference
or, you know, that might be because as I think,
you know, as alluded in those
panels earlier, people are--
They might be buying larger sizes just to
kind of get around, you know, the same size.
And that beats the purpose of
building safety into the products.
But some specific examples for tight
fitting styles, so can a garment--
if can you design something
which might have a footie.
So the answer would be yes.
In this case, you know, you can have a footie
and that could be a part of the design as long
as the garment meets all the
specifications for the sizes.
But those footies, if it hasn't-- And you
could have with elastic or without elastic.
So if you have elastic, you would
perform the measurement at the elastic
and the relaxed stage, laying it flat.
If you don't have it, then you're going to
perform the measurement one inch above the seam.
So you're still performing the
evaluations for the specifications,
making sure you are meeting the requirements.
But at least that isn't allowed
criteria for designing.
That insight, can you have a
hoodie as a design element.
I think Carrie Carlin mentioned
earlier that, you know, you can't.
The reason being, you know, the
requirement is you can't have something
that is attachment that's greater than six
millimeter from the point of attachment
and hood would definitely exceed that.
A lot of times, you might even see
hoods with antlers and things like that.
And so, you know, again that's
again one of those design no-nos.
If you are trying to go somewhere
where it's a tight fitting sleepwear,
you won't be able to meet those requirements.
And so, left-hand side, footies allowed,
hoodies, it can't be a tight fitting sleepwear.
In that case, it's going to be
classified as a loose fitting.
So again, if you misclassified that as a
tight fitting and you use cotton or rayon,
it's not going to be able
to meet the requirements.
More questions about the design aspect offered
in terms of-- if you have large pockets,
you know, like something that stretches across
in the front or back where you might provide
like a kangaroo pocket, pouch
kind of thing, that's probably--
You know, I mean you can perform the evaluation.
But, you know, if it's point-- from the point of
attachment, if it exceeds that six millimeter,
it's not going to meet that
requirement aspect of it.
So, again, do a careful review of the design
and see any time that you have an attachment
that you are able to meet that
six millimeters spec. Sleep sack,
that's I think a very common
question that all of us get in terms
of how do you classify sleep sacks or,
you know, you get in different versions,
the cocoon version, the sleep sacks
or wraps, different terminologies,
different names, similar type of design.
I think in that instance, you probably don't
need-- We need a lot more than just the product
or the design and I think at that point,
you have to evaluate on a case by case basis
but you also have to kind of evaluate the
whole product, how is the product design,
how is it marketed, where is
it sold, those type of things.
General rule of thumb I think is in terms of if
you have a product like a sleep sack or a wrap,
if a baby is going to be with clothes
inside of it, then that's probably going
to lean more towards a day
wear or not a sleep wear.
But if it is something where a child would
be just with their underwear or diaper,
it's probably going to be more-- lean
more towards a sleepwear category.
And also the other aspect of it is even if
it's not a, you know, for under nine months
or under age, you also have to meet that
length restriction as well where you can exceed
that 25 and a 3/4 of an inch as well.
So you have to be mindful of that as well in
terms of how long is that as well if it's for,
you know, three months old, six
months old or nine months old as well.
So be mindful of not just, you
know, looking at one thing.
Always take a step back.
Look at the whole picture.
And then labeling is another common one where
if you do have some garments that are going
to be sold, if it's in a package where you can't
see [inaudible] or anything on those lines,
you'd had to put that information
up there on the packaging itself,
now you see a lot more online as well.
So, you know if you-- the consumer is not going
to have the information by physically looking
at the product or picture of it, then
you need to pull out that information,
can read that up front to the consumers.
So the other styles, boxer sets where, you know,
you don't have the full length for the bottoms,
in that case, I think as Carrie mentioned, you
cannot see in terms of the design tapers or not.
So you evaluate for the thigh
measurements and then you can look down,
roll down and see is it tapering in design.
If it is, then it's acceptable.
If it opens up a lot of times, especially
when you get to girl's garments,
that would not be an acceptable design criteria.
Lounge sets like those, that
also would be allowed if you have
like a short shirt or sleeves, that's OK.
Yeah, as long as it meets appropriate
design specification criteria.
And I think a lot of times, people compare
between the CPSC manual and
the Health Canada guidance.
And there are some-- There are some differences.
You know, the Health Canada manual a lot
of times will say, you know, for example,
with pockets, you need to have the pockets,
you know, either you need to have a Velcro
or a button or something to close that.
The CPSC manual is not as prescriptive.
It just basically says if it's, you know,
attachment or something on those lines,
it can't have more than, you know, six
millimeters from the point of attachment.
So there are distinctions
between the two requirements
and even though they are
similar, they are not identical.
So, you know, flame retardants is another one
where Canada requires toxicity evaluation,
US doesn't necessarily explicitly require it.
So if you are selling in two jurisdictions,
it's, you know, it's normal to compare them
but be mindful that compliance with one doesn't
necessarily mean compliance with the other.
Going on to loose fitting, again, some of
these overall comments in terms of the--
creating the spec which has everything
that you would want to control.
If you didn't say in it, that
means it's open for interpretation
and some manufacturer can change
that attribute or that element.
So I think this one was covered earlier, a
little bit earlier, but if you sell accessories,
it's highly recommended that you
meet the sleepwear requirements
but the requirement would be for
the general apparel flammability,
so it still has to meet 1610.
And then prints and patterns, of course
you can combine colors but, again,
color combine the prints and patterns as long
as the burn characteristics
is not widely different.
And so kind of obvious what's significantly
different, that significant is the keyword.
There's no number around
that significant term, so.
Finally with some recommendations in terms of
if you are creating these type of garments,
what to look for, what to plan for.
I think the first point goes
for both tight fitting as well
as loose fitting sleepwear create,
create your specifications even when--
especially when you are creating
specifications, create my, you know,
your control, that was your action levels.
That is going to be very lower than
your, you know, your thresholds.
So that if something goes
over that action level,
you can take precautionary steps intervene
in between and make sure that, you know,
you're not exceeding the thresholds
that are created for those garments.
Always-- And this goes for everything
that is related with testing.
Always-- If you are taking one snapshot
or how many however snapshot you are--
for the evaluation, always want
to have a representative sample.
Labeling is another one, you
know, make sure that it's there.
Specify the sampling plan.
I think, you know, as part of your reasonable
testing program, include that in your 1107.
If it's component part testing for, you
know, tight fitting, you can do that as well.
Loose fitting, again, specify everything.
It's going to be a lot more
dense than your tight fitting
because here you're specifying different types
of trims, that you'd be using different types
of threads you'd be using for
stitching different types of stitches,
parameters for quality control
of what you can and can't use
and all those other things as well.
And then finally, keep everything.
Especially I mean for the loose fitting and
those, you do need to keep not only the reports
but also the actual samples and some
additional, you know, garments or fabrics
that you can actually do testing
for in case if there are any issues.
So keep everything that you
have as a record as well.
I'll turn it over to Ellen.
>> Ellen Roaldi: Hello.
And thank you for coming everyone.
It's good being here and thank you,
Mary, Allyson, for hosting this seminar.
I think it's very valuable.
As a testing lab, we get many, many questions.
And this regulation is very robust.
It's very detailed.
So there's a lot of parties that contribute
to it and making it a successful regulation
and limiting the burn injuries out there.
So with that, I thought maybe I would discuss
the role of the third party test laboratories.
So I wanted to add a little more
comment to what's already been said.
Very often, we have many, many
questions that come into the labs.
Some of which are very high level.
For example, can we manage the record keeping
requirements for a vendor or for a manufacturer?
Can you define the type of
sleepwear based on the designs?
So we very often are given designs
at conceptual stages and are asked,
is this sleepwear, is this day wear?
Where does it fall?
And we don't have all the answers because
we don't have all the facts at hand.
What are the record keeping
requirements needed for compliance?
This is a very big question
that I receive all the time.
How can we maintain our product files for
compliance and can you maintain them for us?
Another one that comes up very
often is, can you train our staff?
And very often, we do do trainings to help
facilitate the understanding of the regulation.
But as a manufacturer, an importer of
record, you know your process the best.
You have all the details of manufacture of
that product and you're the person that needs
to decide what is best for
that product in maintaining
and limiting the risk associated with it.
So another question that we get is,
my competitor sells this product
in the marketplace, how come I can't?
I can't tell you.
Maybe it's because it hasn't been
reviewed by the CPSC at this point.
Certainly, I can give you an opinion
of what I think where it may fall.
But I'm not the last final
say in this matter, you know.
We have to turn to the CSPC very
often for our information and we ask
for their support for interpretations.
So what is our lab role?
The lab role can audit the factories.
We can look at factories, determine if
they could possibly produce the garments,
the quantity, the volume that
is needed for the production.
We can also do factory audits and/or
social accountability on the factories.
And of course, we do the testing.
So the testing that we do is
basically an audit for you.
You know, we can do size spec
verification at the laboratories.
We can test every 5000 linear yards for
FPU, prototype seams and trims, we can test.
But it's all dependent on what you send us.
The GPU testing, the same way.
We can do the GPU testing.
But we don't know if you have submitted
adequate number of GPU testings
to satisfy the finished product
going to the market.
We can audit sample CEO product
as you know with GPU sampling.
It has to be a random sampling product as
it's being produced and submitted to the lab.
It cannot be a golden sample.
So these are sometimes we are very often
asked to go in in sample sale production
so that we can verify that the
product has been randomly selected.
We can-- We also have to
return the tested samples.
So if you look to the regulation, you look
at what is considered to be record keeping.
There's a lot of detail in the regulation and if
you read through it, it has a lot of questions
that you should be asking, do I have
documents to support all the details
that are found in the regulation?
What is a record?
A record is not only the test reports that show
compliance but a record is your yield reports,
your PO agreements, any agreements or manuals
that you have submitted to your vendors
and your labs, the contractual agreements
that you have signed with your vendors
when purchasing supplies
to manufacture those goods.
Some of the other records that may
be considered are production units.
We talked very often about yield but
you need to know also the traceability
of the components going into that garment
and can you trace the components going
into the finished garment and identify that XYZ
lot of zippers has gone into so many thousands
of FPU garments or GPU garments I mean.
So you need to have traceability
records in-house.
And the questions you should be asking
yourselves as manufacturers and importers,
do I have the documentation to support that?
Do I have-- records are also
including tested samples and remains.
Does your lab return the samples to you?
Do you maintain them?
Are they easily accessible so in case you
have a recall, you have an access to them
in a relatively quick time to
prove compliance to the CPSC.
So these are just some of the questions that
I very often ask my clients and importers.
And I can't answer these questions.
The manufacturer, the importer
has to answer these questions.
So the manufacturer role is to know your
sourcing channel, tie in the loose ends either
through contracts or through your PO agreements.
And very often, you know, say a brand will
issue a manual and will outline the roles
of each party within that contract.
So is that completely tied in?
The source of manufacturing of fabrics
and trims and functional components,
do you have certifications for these components?
Do they comply with the phthalates,
the lead requirements?
Or if flammability is required, are
they compliant for flammability?
You of course have to submit samples for
testing and label the product correctly.
But do you review your reports?
Is there traceability of the
FPUs at the prototype seams
and trims and those test reports for GPU?
Very often, the labs will have a test
request form that request that information
but we do not necessarily know if all
the information is accurate or correct.
Only you can.
We're reliant on the manufacturer vendor to
give us appropriate information to document
so that there is more or less a chain
of test reports to support the GPU.
You only CPC.
You're certifying that product is compliant.
And do you ensure that there are proper
records that are maintained and accessible?
Accessibility is a key.
You know, where do you maintain these records?
Are they easily acceptable?
If you're sourcing overseas, who's
maintaining and holding these records for you?
So the lab does not know the details of
these contractual agreements in summary.
And we could not tell you the details.
We can only give you the test
reports that our hands touched.
The lab is not always privy to
the details in the vendor manuals.
This is another thing.
You know, there are vendor manuals that
test labs have test programs in place.
We don't know if you have vendor
manuals that have been given
to your vendors outlining
the expectations with them.
We have a test procedure that we have
in place that we have to abide by.
But we do not-- We're not necessarily
privy to all the discussions
with the vendors and the
manufacturing community.
The lab is dependent on information
accuracy at the time of submission.
So if there is misinformation or there's not
the detail that's needed on a test request form,
certainly we cannot provide you with
the test report to show the flow
of documentation that has supported that GPU.
The lab must consider traceability of
test report information to be accurate.
Another thing is, now we have many,
many laboratories in the network.
If the testing is done at another
laboratory, we couldn't go back and check
and see if there's a passing report.
So this is another obstacle to which
we cannot really be responsible
to say, OK, you are compliant as a GPU.
It's your decision as a manufacturer
vendor to know that your--
you have all the test reports in place to
support that product, that final product.
And that lab also doesn't know
how many, as I mentioned before,
how many test reports are needed because we
don't have the quantities that are needed
for the fabrication from the start.
And this just summarizes some of
what I've already said, that some--
that the traceability of vendor
certifications is not available to the lab.
If there's changes in production and reworking a
product, we would not know that unless you were
to submit it and specifically state
that on the test request form.
So if this is a rework item,
you know, we could not--
if it's something that is
failing and it's been resubmitted,
we don't always know if it's a rework item.
In which case, if it is a rework item,
it has to go and the whole process has
to be started again from the FPU stage.
So we don't have that knowledge
upfront when we're testing.
We test what we receive.
And then, the marketing of the product.
We very often ask you how is this going to be
marketed so we can help you make a decision
but we can't tell you how to market it.
Finally, how it goes to the
market and what the final outcome
of the marketing is something
that's out of our control.
And again, the traceability of
prototype seams and trim and GPU.
So what does the lab do?
The lab does have to be ILAC accredited,
which is a major feat in itself.
We have to trace-- have traceability for all
our equipment, consumables, certifications
and all of our equipment, verifications.
We have to have traceable documents
throughout in order to get ILAC accredited.
We have to then apply to the CPSC for each
location that is authorized to perform
that test and which test that would apply.
In the case of children's
sleepwear, there's multiple tests.
So we would have to test-- We would have to
apply for phthalate testing, lead testing,
lead and scrapable surface
coatings and sleepwear testing,
and 1610 testing depending on the styling.
Then lab must be knowledgeable of the test.
We have to have our staff trained to
understand so that we can be your eyes and ears.
If we see something suspect,
we've got to be able to raise it
up to you to flag any issue going forward.
The lab must globally coordinate
testing practices.
So we have to test consistently
across the board.
And that's very difficult when you're dealing
with 40 labs with all different languages.
So certainly, we have to have documents and
guidance pieces in place so that it's clear
to everyone exactly how it should be done.
We may assist in obtaining
interpretations from the CPSC.
Certainly we consider ourselves an extension.
We were not trying to take the place of CPSC.
We value and we try to endorse
the direction we receive.
So the lab participates in standards
activities as well as you can see.
There are some things out there
with the regulations right now,
with laundering for example.
We participated at ATCC where
equipment was being impacted,
which is used for the laundering
procedure in the method.
So we're very active in those
subcommittees to come to resolutions.
And the lab also offer services to facilitate
sample selection, factory selection,
and can perform audits in addition to
just the testing as I mentioned before.
So those are the roles-- the role of the lab.
We are here as someone that can help the
industry but we certainly do not control it.
Our word is not final.
The CPSC and the law is the
final gospel, if you will.
And we are just trying to enforce
the regulation as it stands.
OK. So some of the records that you may consider
for documentation, so if you have a garment,
certainly we have to look at
some of the purchase orders,
know how many units are being purchased,
the details of it, the silhouettes,
the designs of the sleepwear
that's going to be sold.
We need to know the shipment dates.
Have you as a manufacturer and
importer record built in enough timeline
to allow for testing of this product.
FPU, if you have to do 50 launderings, it's not
going to happen in three days turnaround time.
We get that question very often.
Why can't you do this in three days?
So, it's not possible.
So it's not wash, wash, wash and one dry.
It's wash, dry, wash, dry.
So, the-- You need to know
all your manufacturers
and locations, country of origin agreements.
You have to understand the customs,
interpretation for country of origin.
GPU and number of units and the traceable
FPUs and prototype tests, how many are needed,
the details of those, are they
documented with your vendors?
The manufacturing identification and style
numbers and all the traceability of lots
to finished product for finished
garment of sleepwear.
And then of course your supporting
documentation,
do you have all the test reports and results?
Are they all passing in order
to sell that sleepwear?
For fabrics, it's very similar, you have to
look at PO agreements, styles and finishes.
If there's any styles and
finishes, who's providing it?
What is the detail of that finish?
Has it impacted the flammability performance?
I can honestly say, the more
testing, the better.
Not because I'm looking to make more money.
It's because if you are making a substitution
or changing, you need to quantify it
and make sure that it is compliant.
The finishes to a fabric
can have a drastic effect
on the flammability performance, as can color.
That's why color is such an issue.
The different types of seam.
Seaming, I've seen seams
that burns up like a wick.
Seams are very-- because of the openings
and because of the actual seam design,
you can pass with a very, you
know, a little bit wider seaming.
But if it's like a-- like almost like a wick
on a candle, depending on the seam structure
and the design, it can burn
right up the full specimen.
So you have to really test multiple
times in some cases to determine
which seam design is the
best suited for that product.
Garment specifications and sizes,
random sampling selection plans.
Have you documented your sampling?
Because it's written into the regulation
that you have to randomly select.
Do you have a document saying that you
sort-- you took out garment number 55, 75,
149 and so on and so forth in
order to qualify and verify
that the production has not
changed through the entire lot.
And then of course, you have your
details of additional sampling plans,
if you have other sampling plans that you're
using, if you've gone to reduce sampling plan
or a tighter sampling plan, have
you that documented properly
and do you have the test samples
to support those test results?
And then of course labeling.
You know, part of the record keeping
process is also having samples on hand,
you have to have original
samples, original fabric.
You have to have original prototype
specimens, your tested specimens
and remains and who's hosting it.
I have some clients that have decided that
they want all the samples maintained in the US
for easy access if there's
ever a reason for recall.
And then are you auditing those records?
That's another question.
So these are all questions that you should be
asking yourself in order to protect yourself
and to show that you are compliant to the law.
So in summary, the manufacturer or importer
of record is responsible for the compliance
of the law including but not limited to
the development of the approved designs,
traceability, record keeping
requirements and issuing the children's CPC
or Children's Product Certificate.
Thank you.
>> Allyson Tenney: And thank you to our panel.
We heard three interesting and different views.
We do have some time for questions.
So we will take questions
to any of the panellists.
If you want to write in, remember
the email is jkent@cpsc.gov.
Question in the back?
>> The garment testing for GPU, did I hear you
say that you have to choose your GPU garments
from the first FPU because if that was
the only FPU where you did the wash test.
>> Louann Spirito: No.
>> OK. I don't think I heard that right.
>> Louann Spirito: No, I
think you misunderstood.
>> I'm sure I did.
>> So when we're talking about the FPU testing
and combining prints or combining colors,
we were saying that you have to test three
separate samples in those different colors
or prints to confirm that
they're burning the same.
And then only one of those has
to get washed the 50 times.
When you get to the GPU stage, the washing
has already been done so now you're just--
You're testing each GPU that you need
to do based on the quantity of garments
that you're making, so-- But the FPU number
and the GPU number have to be linked.
So in other words, there has to be traceability
from when you assigned an FPU number,
when you're making GPUs, you have to know what
FPU is associated with that particular GPU.
>> Right, you have to be able to tie that
through the process but you might be testing
for GPU-- You might be testing for GPU
garments that didn't come from the first FPU,
so they are therefore not necessarily washed.
If only the first FPU is washed and
you're randomly choosing garments for GPU,
some of your GPU garments will be from
an FPU that wasn't necessarily washed.
That's like-- That's my question.
>> Louann Spirito: Yeah.
>> OK.
>> Louann Spirito: Well,
I don't know the answer.
I guess we have to maybe direct
it to Mary because that is true.
>> Right.
>> Louann Spirito: But the way
the regulation is interpreted is
that not everyone has to be tested.
Or in other words, not every
FPU has to be washed 50 times.
>> Correct.
So--
>> Louann Spirito: So if you're selecting
something that wasn't from the one
that was washed, then in the garment
stage, it's not representative
of the one that was actually washed.
>> That make-- That's what I thought.
Are you seeing at any of the labs
a lot of chemically treated fabric
for traditional sleepwear,
speaking of the washing?
>> Louann Spirito: No.
>> Are you seeing much of that come in
that requires the wash test for every FPU?
>> Louann Spirito: No.
>> Thank you.
>> Louann Spirito: I think--
I've seen none really.
And I'm not sure.
You know, it might be out there.
Sometimes like Ellen mentioned, we
don't get a lot of information either.
So sometimes we just get a
submission and they say test it.
We don't have a lot of information
about what it is.
But generally, we don't see things that have
a chemical flame retardant, none of them.
>> Ellen Roaldi: Can I add to that?
We do ask if there is a flame
retardant finish applied to it but we--
very rarely is it ever mentioned.
>> Pratik Ichhaporia: The other aspect of it is
also in terms of I think just the-- There are--
If you look at it from the chemical
restrictions perspective, those have also gone
up from the states as well as
at the federal level as well.
So that's also contributing to
that as well, moving away from some
of the use of the flame retardants as well.
>> Louann Spirito: I mean I
think just in general today,
people don't want chemicals anyway.
So in addition to the fact that there's
regulations for a lot of these flame retardants,
in general, consumers not, you know, don't
want chemicals, manufacturers don't want
to have extra cost of adding chemicals.
So they-- I think in most cases, they would just
select the fabric that can pass the test rather
than add a chemical flame retardant.
>> Allyson Tenney: Question in the back?
>> You know, the majority of the
industry today doesn't use FR yarn.
So if it's not FR yarn, there are
chemicals being put on the product,
it doesn't mean that they're harmful.
And very few fabrics with the exception of the
high loft fabrics, those are the only fabrics
that are really using FR yarn because
the chemicals can't penetrate it.
Because when you start using FR yarn for
basic fabrics, the cost is too expensive
and the retailers won't pay for it.
>> Louann Spirito: Right.
And I think that's one of the reasons
that we don't see a lot of it is
because that is an extra cost that's involved.
>> No, I'm saying that basic FR fabrics
are not being used with FR yarn.
There is a topical treatment that's being put
on them but they're not harmful chemicals.
>> Louann Spirito: Yeah.
No. Not all chemicals that
are used are harmful but--
>> Right. And it's not flame
retardant, flame resistant.
Big difference.
>> Louann Spirito: Well, the interpretation in
the regulation is that if chemicals are used
as a flame retardant, whether it's
flame resistant, flame retardant,
that the additional washing has to be done.
That is not a distinction in my
understanding in the regulation
of the type of chemical that's used.
So if there is a chemical applied to retard
the burning rate, then the washing would have
to be done because they want
to ensure that it's not--
that it's going to last for
the life of the garment.
>> Right. But all our garments that
you're saying are marked flame resistant,
not flame retardant.
There's a big difference between the two.
Flame retardant, you know, that's when the
first fabrics came out, marked flame retardant,
that I don't believe it's
flame retardant anymore.
It's flame resistant.
Big difference.
>> That's made with FR yarn, made
with FR yarn should be treated
as though they were chemically treated.
OK.
>> Yeah, it's the yarn, they're treated.
>> Right. Therefore it's not a topical.
So it doesn't have to be tested for 50
washes for every FPU, for only the first FPU.
>> Correct.
>> Allyson Tenney: Thank you.
Any other questions?
Any from the webinar?
Any questions?
OK. We're going to move.
Yes.
>> Louann Spirito: OK.
So when you have a style that is like a sack,
so not the baby sleep sacks but you have a style
where it's sort of a sack, it's for older
children that they get into it and it sort
of goes to your waist and--
but there's no legs in it.
So your feet are not exposed.
So you really can't walk around in it.
It's basically something that you
could sit in or, you know, lay in.
So-- but it wouldn't be one-- It's not really
sleep wear in the sense that it only goes
up to your waist, it's not a full thing.
So you probably have something on underneath it.
So is this-- Would this be considered a
sleep wear, lounge wear kind of an item,
or would this be considered general apparel?
>> Allyson Tenney: A blanket with sleeves?
Is that what you're--
>> Louann Spirito: No, it just
goes to the waist, just to waist.
>> Allyson Tenney: A blanket.
>> Pratik Ichhaporia: Like
half a sleeping bag basically.
Think of it that way.
>> Allyson Tenney: Blanket.
>> Pratik Ichhaporia: Yeah.
The half sleeping bag basically.
>> Louann Spirito: Yeah, it's like a
sleeping bag type thing but, you know,
you can't walk around in it because there's no,
you know, movement for your legs or your feet.
>> Allyson Tenney: It sounds
like it's a blanket.
>> Louann Spirito: Like a blanket.
OK.
>> Allyson Tenney: Or a sleeping
bag type of blanket.
>> Louann Spirito: So then you would expect it
to meet the blanket flammability standard or--
>> We don't have a blanket
flammability standard.
You can't walk around it and so
it's not general wearing apparel.
So that's why we would say it's a blanket.
>> Louann Spirito: It would be
considered as a-- like a blanket.
OK. So I mean I know that
you don't have a standard
but the voluntary ASTM standard most people try
to, you know, meet that if it's a blanket item.
OK. Thank you.
>> Allyson Tenney: Anything else
before we move on to our last session?
We will have another last question
and answer in case you think
of anything during this last session
and any that come in on the webinar.
So our last session of the day is what to
expect when you are inspected and what to expect
when your shipment is detained at the port.
These are topics that are-- that companies
often do not have the opportunity to consider
until they are experiencing such an event.
Today, we are going to give you the
opportunity to learn the inspection process
and the import cargo examination process
at the port when your shipment is stopped.
I'll just give a minute for the
new panelists to come to the table.
Thank you again to the lab
representatives for our panel on testing.
Appreciate all the information.
[ Applause ]
OK. What to expect when you're inspected.
It is my pleasure to introduce
to you two CPSC employees
that are very experienced
in their specialty areas.
First speaking this afternoon
is Ms. Jackie Martinez,
senior product safety investigator
from New York City.
Jackie began her career with the CPSC in 1990.
She is currently covering assignments in
the New York City and New Jersey areas.
Conducting inspections is
one of Jackie's strengths
as a senior product safety investigator,
as well as educating industry leaders
regarding the commission's requirements
and federal regulations.
After Jackie, we will hear from Mike Giella.
He is a compliance investigator with the Office
of Import Surveillance at
the Port of Newark, New York.
He began-- New York-- Newark and New York.
He began his career with CPSC in
2002 as a product safety investigator
and has been co-located with
CBP at the port since 2008.
His experience in investigations
and knowledge of our regulations
and statutes is an asset in his examinations.
Take it away, Jackie.
Thank you.
>> Jackie Martinez: Good afternoon, everyone.
CPSC investigators have authority upon
presenting appropriate credentials
and a written notice from the commission to the
owner, operator, or agent in charge to enter
and inspect at reasonable times
and in a reasonable manner.
Any factory, warehouse or establishment in
which consumer products are manufactured
or held in connection with
distribution and commerce;
any firewalled conformity assessment bodies
accredited under section 14(f)(2)(D);
or any conveyance being used
to transport consumer products
in connection with distribution and commerce.
Inspections are not usually
scheduled in advance.
The investigator will ask to meet
with an officer of the corporation
or the most responsible person on the premises.
The investigator will present
his or her credentials.
A notice of inspection will be issued and
the reason for the visit will be discussed.
I brought along with me an example of
a notice of inspection for those of you
who have never been visited by a CPSC
investigator or compliance investigator just
to show an example of what you should receive.
So if you want to just pass it around.
This was mentioned several times
today during the presentations.
It is unlawful for any person to fail
or refuse to permit entry or inspection
under section 19(a)(3) of the
Consumer Produce Safety Act.
A violation of section 19(a)(3)
could result in civil penalties
on the CPSA section, so on and so forth.
The failure to permit entry or
inspections as authorized by section 11(b),
15 USC is also prohibited under section
of the Federal Hazardous Substances Act
and could result in civil penalty
under section 5, so on and so forth.
What prompts a CPSC visit?
Follow-up to an in-depth, potentially
hazardous product was identified
but responsible firm is not clear.
Manufacturer, importer or retailer of
possibly defective product was identified
and additional information is needed
to determine whether substantial
product hazard exists.
Ongoing voluntary and regulated product
standards compliance monitoring.
This is just some sources where we received
reports or incidents that prompt an inspection.
Hot line reports, public data
base and so on and so forth,
a whole bunch of-- We monitor the newspapers.
We could have-- We receive
incidents through there.
We coordinate.
We have contact with the
fire and police departments.
They submit reports to us
involving a consumer product.
This is how do you prepare for an inspection?
If you are a manufacturer, retailer
or reseller of a consumer product,
know what rules apply to your business.
Being informed is being empowered.
CPSC wants you, your business to
succeed and your customers to be safe.
We are a resource to educate you on
the steps your business should take
to comply with our safety rules.
Review our business and manufacturing
guidance on CPSC.gov.
Watch our special presentations for industry
from CPSC technical and compliance staff.
Maintain good records.
Document the history of products from
initial design to current QC reviews.
Implement a first class quality control system
to ensure you meet US consumer
product safety requirements.
Section 16(b) of the CPSA requires that a
firm must provide all records, reports, books,
documents, papers or labeling which show or
relate to the production inventory, testing,
distribution, sale, transportation, importation,
or receipt of any product or component thereof.
You also must provide the investigator
with samples of the product upon request.
We also like to see or ask to see
any factory area, warehouse area,
office area in which consumer products
are manufactured or held in connection
with distribution into commerce or
any area where documentation is held
which is needed to complete the inspection.
The following information may be
reviewed during an inspection.
Trade and brand names of products,
complaint history for products in question,
details of quality control and testing
programs, information regarding sources,
suppliers of subcomponents, product coding
system description, business structure,
product design history, sales records,
review of applicable regulations.
This was also discussed earlier today,
penalties for noncompliance with an inspection.
Section 19 (a) 3 of the CPSA, once again, it
is unlawful for any person to fail or refuse
to permit access to or copying of records or
fail or refuse to establish or maintain records
or fail or refuse to make reports
or provide information or fail
or refuse to permit entry or inspection.
18 USC section 1001, criminal statute,
falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick,
scheme or device, a material fact.
Makes any materially false, fictitious,
or fraudulent statement or representation,
or make or uses any false writing or document
knowing the same contain any materially false,
fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry.
Will the investigator do any testing?
The investigator may test random samples if the
testing equipment is portable and available.
Such testing may include XRF screening for lead,
small parts testing and/or other product
specific examination deemed appropriate.
We have phthalate testers as
well, phthalate testing on site.
Collection of samples.
CPSC inspectional authority allows for
collection of samples, component parts,
materials, substances, products,
containers, packaging and labeling.
Samples will be collected by the investigator
personally at random from the firm's inventory
within any of the firm's facilities.
Multiple units are usually collected to ensure
enough units are available for adequate testing.
Affidavits.
Investigators will obtain a signed
affidavit summarizing the inspection
which will include the following
information, records obtained,
samples collected, and statements made.
Like I left my contact information should
anyone have any questions or-- out to me.
>> May I ask you a question?
>> Jackie Martinez: Sure.
>> After you do an investigation, who
ultimately makes the determination?
>> Jackie Martinez: Us investigators,
we are there to collect all the facts
and the information and the samples
then we go ahead and send that off
to our compliance division and they work
closely with the lab and our legal team
and they ultimately make the
determination or decision on the inspection.
>> OK.
>> Jackie Martinez: Anybody
else have any questions?
Has anyone been inspected before
here by one-- I don't see--
recognize anyone from the New
York City or New Jersey area.
>> Louann Spirito: From New York City.
>> Jackie Martinez: Yeah.
>> Louann Spirito: I used to work for--
-- many years ago.
>> Jackie Martinez: And I think a long time ago.
>> Louann Spirito: Many years
ago, we got a surprise visit.
There was the CPSC and they were
specifically looking for records
for at the time there was a lot of flammability
recalls for I think they were rayon skirts.
You remember them?
You-- It was probably you.
You probably came to my office.
>> Jackie Martinez: We were
in the New York office
at that time, so that was several of us there.
>> Louann Spirito: Yeah and--
>> Jackie Martinez: That's all I remember.
>> Louann Spirito: You know, so
for us, you know, we were like--
And we of course had all our ducks in a row.
We had no lead--
>> Jackie Martinez: Excellent.
>> Louann Spirito: It wasn't a
specific issue with our product.
I think it was a general
inspection of the companies
who are making these kinds of products.
>> Jackie Martinez: OK.
>> Louann Spirito: I don't think we
had an actual issue with it but I think
that they were just checking to see that we
had testing documents that we were testing.
>> Jackie Martinez: Right.
>> Louann Spirito: So--
>> Jackie Martinez: Excellent.
>> Louann Spirito: I don't remember
any negative outcome from it, so.
>> Jackie Martinez: Usually, yeah, those are
the ones we tend to remember, the negative ones.
OK. Anybody else have any questions?
>> Yeah, this term-- Do firms have to stop
their operations during an inspection?
>> Jackie Martinez: We are
there just to educate them
and collect the materials and
give them the information.
We are not there to offer our
opinions, suggestion, or recommendation.
We are not there to tell-- put
them out of business or tell them
to stop making any product at that point.
They'll hear from our headquarters
whether to stop or not or continue.
>> Understood.
Where do firms have to keep
their records in the US?
>> Jackie Martinez: We prefer that they keep
their records at their corporate headquarters,
wherever they maintain all their sales invoices
and operational information, because many firms
of course have distribution centers
and/or all the warehouses and stuff,
but we prefer at their corporate headquarters.
>> OK.
>> Jackie Martinez: And then one other
thing I should bring up, you know,
now that we're in the electronics age,
a lot of times, we ask for these records
and they're electronic, of course,
and they're not easily accessible.
So we ask them, is there someone at the firm
that can, you know, either access the system
because us as investigators, we know there
are totally different system in what we're use
to using and we hope that someone in their
office can access those records for us.
Thank you very much.
>> Mike Giella: Afternoon everyone.
Try to make this-- Try to make this nice and
short because I know it's the end of the day,
but also keep it informative and
certainly answer any questions you may have
about the import process.
First thing as kind of disclaimer
we try to tell everyone
that really doesn't know the world we live
in in terms of CBP and the CPSC relationship.
All parts-- All ports are
unique across the country.
They-- certain ports, believe it
or not, have specific requirement
of how they try to do business on a daily basis.
So if you do have any really specific
questions about your port where you're located,
you really should reach out
to the local CPSC personnel.
They'll be able answer a detailed
question on how their report does business.
A little information about an intensive exam.
When we say exam, and you're going to hear
that word a lot in the next couple minutes,
that means when a shipment is brought upon
import to a warehouse and physically unloaded
from a 40-foot container that you would
normally see on the back of an 18 wheeler
and those goods are stripped
down onto a warehouse floor,
an investigator such as myself is
literally opening up boxes looking at cargo,
looking at the product and
doing field screening.
So when you see that word exam, that's
what we, that's what we refer to.
Cargo may have been targeted for
examination by one or more federal agencies.
Just because it's a CPSC related product, CBP
may involve-- may be involved or another agency.
But that being said, once a
shipment has been flagged for exam,
the responsible agency via customs will get
notified that the exam is coming their way.
Here's some reasons why your
cargo may be examined.
We do have national CPCS
targeting that's via our CTAC,
Commercial Targeting and Analysis Center.
That's an office located in DC that many
agencies including CPSC have personnel at.
So it could be looked at at a national level.
And of course CTAC being a national
entity will cover all parts.
Secondly, there could be locals CPSC
targeting where investigators such as myself
who knows the landscape of the environment
they're in, the area that they're
in will put a target in from
our internal system.
And of course lastly, you-- We do often
get referrals from other agencies.
Let's say a shipment was targeted
by CBP for a purpose of their own,
but upon opening up the freight,
they see a CPSC regulated product
and they would come find an investigator
such as myself to come take a look at it.
What you should do when your shipment
requires a CPSC physical exam?
If you do have access or your
broker has access to ACE,
you should certainly look
to upload the documents.
That would include the entry
package, invoices packing list.
All the certain certificate or test records
that may apply, that's always helpful.
If you do not have that ability
or you simply were never notified
that your freight is being flagged for exam,
you could reach out to your local CPSC person
and say, hey, do you need this
documentation, these entries on hold?
It should be coming your way soon.
And more often than not, we'll accept
that documentation ahead of time
because all it does is speed up our process.
And of course, your broker and the
importer at times will determine which CES
that the physical exam is
going to take place at.
So typically you might more-- need to
address with your broker where you want
to send the freight depending
on where you're located.
CES, you'll also see in a few minutes over the
next few slides a Central Examination Site.
That's the actual warehouse that holds
the freight when we do the examination.
Here's part of our exam process in Newark.
We are physically-- Investigators such as
myself are physically what we call co-located
with CBP or customs importer protection.
I-- my office space is literally right next
to Customs and Border Protection officers.
They're uniformed, they're armed.
We are available, there's four of us up in
Newark and I can only speak for our port.
There are four of us up there.
We are available every single
day to do an examination.
So, CPSC exams do not stay, it gets down.
They move more than any other agency.
I'd like to think that we are the
smallest agency that CBP deals with
but we're the most efficient
because we are co-located there.
Once cargo is offloaded from one of those
huge ocean liners, that container does go
through an x-ray screen by CBP 100% in
Newark looking for WMD, weapons, et cetera,
that kind of thing, more
national security items.
But then once that examination-- or
excuse me, that x-ray is complete,
if the shipment is flagged for a
physical exam, it's going to go to a CES,
a Central Examination Site, which
is a warehouse that we work out of.
If there's no exam required, it's
going to go the other way down the road
and be released fully to
the importer's possession.
Again, we are notified that a shipment is ready
for full exam once the shipment is
physically brought to the warehouse
and the warehouse crew unloads the
freight onto the warehouse floor.
There are a variety of reasons
why we don't go into containers,
either they're half stripped
or quarter stripped.
So as a requirement, CBP
requires 100% strip of those good.
That's the significant difference
between some other reports
where they don't necessarily require 100% strip.
Once it's on the warehouse floor, we will go
physically out there and examine the cargo,
again, by literally opening up boxes
and conducting whatever field screening that's
necessary depending on the type of product.
If it's a children's product, we're
going to have a handheld XRF on site
at the warehouse screen for lead as an example.
Possible outcomes of this exam.
Of course, a full release is certainly possible,
everything is compliant, everything looks good.
Our releases is conveyed to CBP the same day.
There's also a possibility of
a sampling conditional release.
That's a less likely outcome
than the third one simply
because there's not a lot of
situations that require that.
An example that I heard before which is entirely
accurate is if there's simply a labeling issue
or something of that nature, we would
consider a sample and conditional release.
The third option is sample and
detention is the most likely option
if there are problems or potential problems.
And there are some other possibilities but
those are usually unique in nature and most
of the time it's one of the first three.
When our cargo passes a CPSC field
screen, we will notify CBP again that day
so it doesn't get stale of a release,
but you have to remember--
and this is an important part.
We are living in CBP's world.
CPSC is our guest in our house, so
to speak, as is in the other agency.
So we can verbally issue the release to CBP.
But if CBP or another agency has a hold on it
and they haven't done their
exam, it's going to sit there.
So although you might think that it's,
oh, it's a CPSC regulated product,
I just spoke with Mike, he
said it's good to go for CPSC,
CBP may have an eye on it for something else.
And we have been instructed by CBP very,
very directly, do not speak for them
and they just speak on CPSC's behalf.
So although it might be OK for CPSC, you
may have to wait it out for another type
of release from CPB or another agency.
All right, this is the slide that you do not
want to be on but it's certainly relevant.
When cargo fail CPSC field screening and again,
depending on what product type it is depends
on what type of field screening
we're going to be doing.
A sample of physical unit and the
number of units depend on the type
of violation will be collected by the
investigator from the warehouse and be shipped
down to headquarters in the lab and some
different offices for further evaluation.
The product would typically
remain at the CES again we're--
rare cases we'll do a conditional release.
For the most part it's a sample in
detention for a variety of logistical issues.
You'll get a notice of sampling
detention which is a generic CPSC form
but it will have the specific information,
the item numbers, the model numbers,
the location of the warehouse which is
you already know, but most specifically
and most importantly, the potential violation,
the regulation that it has an issue with.
If we do not see the documents in ACE or
we haven't reached out to you already,
a local CPSC investigator or technician
who are kind of are behind the scenes aides
at the port will reach out to you for the
documents, specifically the entry package,
the CPC, if that's relevant, et cetera.
What happens to those units that were
sample during the evaluation process?
They're processed at the port.
They're physically gathered from
the shipment, they're photographed,
they're electronically recorded in an internal
system and they're physically packaged
to go to headquarters in the lab.
Different units go to different offices within
CPSC depending on the type of violation.
And each office evaluates the product
depending on what type of product,
but ultimately it's going to come to a
compliance officer's desk and they're going
to have the final determination and discuss the
results with the importer about that sample.
Final steps, if CPSC headquarters notify--
will notify the local CPSC investigator of
the determination, we will then notify CBP
of the determination and
what action should be taken?
Most of the time if we get to this
point, it's going to be the third option.
Now I say most of time, not all of the time.
Because I find that before going to take the
action of sampling and detaining a shipment
and our detention authority
list last up to 60 days,
which is different in CBP's which is 30 days.
And a lot of people don't
realize that in the import world.
If we're going to go through the trouble and
the time and the money and the effort to collect
that sample, an investigator such as myself is
pretty confident that there is a violation there
and it's probably going to result in seizure.
We do make mistakes of course.
Some products have been incorrectly
field screened, of course,
but most of the time it's going to result
in that third option, which is seizure.
Once CPSC requests CBP to take that action,
CBP and the CES and the broker and you, guys,
the importer will coordinate as
needed what steps happen next.
That was it.
Any questions?
Yes, Mary.
>> Mary Toro: Can you explain--
>> Mike Giella: Sure.
Sure. Mary asked about the type of inspection
that we do called an informed
compliance inspection.
The acronym is ICI.
It's different than what Jackie
spoke about which is more
of a full establishment inspection.
We do also do full establishment inspections.
But then ICI was created and designed to reach
out to a first time violator so to speak,
someone who we really have no history
with that may have had one bump
in the road so to speak at import.
An investigator will reach out to that
importer and offer a completely voluntary
of educational visit or even phone
call quiet frankly just to say,
hey, do you know who the CPSC is?
Do you know why we seized this stuff?
Here on the contact locally for you if you
have any more questions moving forward,
here are some resources of how you can
avoid future mistakes, that kind of thing.
And again, that is early in the process
primarily after a first violation.
>> If you're detaining some goods from
a firm but not their whole shipment.
>> Mike Giella: Yes.
>> Is it possible for them to get the other
part of the shipment that has not been detained?
>> Mike Giella: Yes, absolutely.
Through your broker, you can file
what we call a manipulation order.
With CBP, your broker will know that form.
They should know that form rather well.
And you can file that with
CBP and the warehouse.
And they will coordinate that
manipulation request with me
as the detaining agency or another investigator.
That will get approved usually the same day.
And then the warehouse will segregate
the detained items from the non-detained
on your behalf, and the non-detained
will-- Can get released under a release,
and of course the detention
still remains though.
Yes.
You mean the examination process?
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Mike Giella: Sure.
She asked what the timeframe is between when
a kind of a hold is placed on a shipment
versus when I can physically look at it.
Unfortunately there is a-- somewhat of
a lag on the logistical aspect of it.
It is physically getting unloaded from a
boat going through the initial CBP screening
like I mentioned before which
is, you know, standard.
Then by the time it actually gets trucked
to a warehouse and gets in line to be--
what we call stripped out on to the
warehouse, there is several days.
So we get this question all the time and I--
actually I want to say probably
more than several days,
probably 10 to 2 weeks, 10 days to 2 weeks.
And it is simply a physical moving of freight.
And then once it gets to the
warehouse, it stands behind in line
for shipments that have arrived earlier.
It's no more complicated than that.
We get this question all the time.
You see an arrival date on your entry that might
say the first of the month and then the 15th
of your month, you're like, why
haven't I've been examined yet.
Meanwhile, we haven't even
been notified of the exam yet.
It's not in our queue yet because of the
logistics of moving it from point A to point B.
And I want to be clear that once that exam
is presented to us, because of our staffing
in Newark and because of our,
I guess probably our dedication
to also facilitating trade, it's happening.
Our exams are happening every day.
There is by no chance in Newark that you have
to wait three or four days with your freight
on the floor of a warehouse
for us to examine it.
It might be a day, it's literally hours.
The delay is moving from
point A to B. You're welcome.
Yes.
>> Louann Spirito: How many
ports do you have on CPSC staff?
>> Mike Giella: I believe--
It's a great question.
CPSC import-- I'll give you a little history--
started in 2008, since when I came on board
from-- I was previously a domestic investigator.
We, I think, started with six
ports and now we're up to 18.
Is that correct?
Twenty, excuse me.
A lot of the ports, they're single
investigators, so they're a little more stressed
in terms of their workload and--
but they're also slower ports.
So larger ports have four people like Newark
and I think we have six in LA and, you know,
so we're staffed up at the larger ports.
But it's 20 currently.
>> Louann Spirito: OK.
Thank you.
>> Mike Giella: Of the largest
ports around the country.
>> Assuming you have your goods
conditionally released, what's the process look
like after that, you know, assuming that you--
your firm goes through the
process and has their goods--
>> Mike Giella: For reconditioning?
>> Yeah.
>> Mike Giella: Yeah.
Typically, under that scenario,
you're going to be in contact with--
at the very least, the compliance officer here
at headquarters kind of coordinating that,
who's going to approve that
potential for reconditioning.
Most of the time, it's going to be an
investigator that's going to go out to verify
that reconditioning in person most of the time.
So, at that point, you're going to be able
to schedule that around your reconditioning
and the time that you can do it, whenever
is-- has to be done whatever is necessary
and we're going to arrive in person, again, at
a predetermined time to kind of verify that.
And then once that's verified, it
usually happens, you know, very,
very quickly within a day or two.
You can get a-- even a verbal or a phone call
from compliance saying that it's good to go.
Anyone else?
>> Allyson Tenney: Anymore question for him?
>> I've got one more.
If you have your shipment seized or [inaudible]
their shipment seized due to a violation,
CPSC violation, why do they get
bailed from CES, from the CES?
>> Mike Giella: OK.
The CES is a private entity.
They're a private business.
CBP contracts out that warehouse
space at every port.
So, you're not bringing your
goods to a CBP warehouse,
you're bringing it to a private warehouse.
So, the cost of the warehouse pulling those
goods out at the time for exam and then
if you are detained and potentially seized,
a daily fee to have your goods stored during the
detention process is why you're getting charged.
It has nothing to do with CBP or CPSC.
We actually have no control over it.
It's a private warehouse
that the government contracts
out that they can utilize
to do their examinations.
>> So is it just to look at the draw
if your products go to the CES instead
of being unloaded at a CBP warehouse?
Do they--
>> Mike Giella: There is no CBP warehouse.
>> Oh OK.
>> Mike Giella: Right.
The CES is a standard thing that happens at
all ports, so any examination is going to go
to a centralized examination site.
That CBP contracts out where we have staff at.
And that's actually where I, an
investigator such as myself have our offices
at that's why we're there constantly
at the warehouse and available.
If you're talking about targeting,
that's a whole other avenue
of why it should be-- would be targeted.
But there are no CBP offices-- warehouses.
It would only be a CES.
>> Anyone?
>> Mike Giella: Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> Allyson Tenney: Thank you, Mike and Jackie.
So that was our last scheduled session.
We are going to have a few
more questions and answers,
so I'm going to call the CPSC
technical staff back to the panel.
So Mary, Carrie, Paige, Linda.
OK, anymore questions from the audience or
on the web before we conclude our seminar?
>> There [inaudible].
[ Inaudible Remark ]
>> Veronica Fay: Veronica
Fay [assumed spelling], AME.
You had said something about the beach robe
and the [inaudible] length of what it has
to be to classify as a beach robe.
Can you give us that?
Or where can we get it?
>> Carrie Carlin: It's through
the national bureau of--
>> That's [inaudible].
>> Carrie Carlin: Yeah.
I have it, you can email me.
>> Veronica Fay: OK.
>> Carrie Carlin: I do have the chart.
>> Veronica Fay: OK, thanks.
>> Carrie Carlin: I don't
know where you can find it.
It's on our websites through
a different company.
>> Scott Cohn: Scott Cohn from Arent Fox.
I have a-- I just want to revisit the question
that I believe H&M had about labeling underwear
that is clearly underwear as not
being intended for sleepwear.
And I think the response from
Carrie, if I'm not mistaken,
was that that really wouldn't
be approved by the CPSC?
>> Carrie Carlin: We advised against it, yes.
>> Scott Cohn: You advised against it, OK.
So, my question is are there-- I mean, are you
familiar with any consumer perception panels
or anything that have been conducted to
come to that conclusion or is that just sort
of an internal, you know, thought process?
>> Carrie Carlin: I've had consumers complain
to me and made trade complaints about--
it's usually moms, like the mom Facebook groups.
A lot of them will message me
complaining about it because they see
that those garments are sleepwear.
They don't understand why a company would
have to put a warning tag stating to them
that it's not sleepwear, it just
confuses the consumer and I agree.
>> Scott Cohn: I mean to me it seems like that
it would be actually helpful to the consumer,
it would be in line with the marketing, it would
be consistent with the marketing of the product
as not sleepwear, rather than
sort of reverse, you know.
>> Carrie Carlin: If we said that we
advised for those tags to be on it,
it would be on every single lounge wear garment.
Every robe would have that tag.
>> Scott Cohn: Right.
>> Carrie Carlin: And that would be a problem.
>> Scott Cohn: But, but it's not-- I mean, if
a company does decide to pursue that and label,
it's not held against them necessarily, right?
I mean--
>> Carrie Carlin: Right.
>> Scott Cohn: OK.
I just wanted to clarify that.
OK.
>> Carrie Carlin: That's fine.
>> Scott Cohn: Thank you.
>> Allyson Tenney: Any other questions?
>> All right.
I have a couple questions from the email.
So, Angie Lucas was asking, is it correct
that a flame retardant is a chemical
that makes a garment fire resistant?
I think she's looking for clarification
as to what exactly a flame retardant is.
>> Allyson Tenney: Right.
Flame retardant it is chemical that is added
to change the flammability
characteristic of a fabric.
>> So are FRs permitted for
use in children's sleepwear?
>> Mary Toro: There is nothing that restricts
the use of them in children's sleepwear.
The manufacturer has responsibility to make sure
that there's no toxicity associated with the use
of a topical treatment or any
other type of treatment that's used
in a garment, a children's garment.
The standards are performance standard
and it doesn't specify metrics or the way
to meet the flammability requirement.
So, it's not prohibited, it's not recommended.
There's no-- The regulation is silent on the
use other than saying that if you use it,
you have to make sure that it's
durable for the 50 launderings.
>> Thank you.
What are the requirements for family pajamas?
>> Mary Toro: Carrie, you want to-- Well,
family pajamas, that's an interesting category.
The adult pajamas have to meet 1610, 16 CFR
1610 which is the clothing textile standard
and the children's sleepwear has
to meet the sleepwear standard.
>> Understood.
>> Anything else?
>> Allyson Tenney: OK.
With that, we will conclude the seminar.
And we have a slide where
there are available resources.
Our website is always an excellent
resource for additional information.
We have laboratory manuals.
Of course the federal register
notices, the CFR, list of recalls,
all other kinds of manufacturing information.
We also have guidance documents.
And here is the contact information for the
CPSC staff that participated in today's seminar.
So we welcome any additional
questions that you might think
of on your journey after the seminar.
I do want to thank everybody for coming today
to the seminar to support today's event,
especially all the speakers
and the panel events.
It was a very informative
day with lots of information,
so we send you a sincere
thank you for participating.
Is there another question?
>> Just some more questions online.
Angie is clarifying that-- Sorry.
Angie is clarifying that she wants to know
the difference between flame retardant
and flame resistant in reference
to previous discussion.
>> Allyson Tenney: OK.
So flame retardant usually refers to a chemical
and the flame resistant is the performance term.
>> OK. There's also a question
on here asking whether
or not the presentations will be
uploaded on the website or some other--
>> Allyson Tenney: Yeah, I
will-- Yes, I will get to that.
We will have those, yes.
So the short answer is yes.
So in addition to all the-- other additional
information that is available on our website,
we will be posting the presentations,
so they will be made available.
And we will also be issuing some type
of follow-up document depending on some
of the feedback we might get and as we review
all of the information that was presented today
and all the questions, we will be
compiling some type of information,
some type of proceeding for today's event.
So, I'm expecting you to our question and answer
or a pamphlet or some type of summary report.
So we can look forward to
that in the near future.
Our goal today was to provide an interactive
session to assist the industry with compliance.
We hope that we achieved our goal.
We hope that you learned something
that made the trip here worthwhile.
Again, we thank you for coming
and participating.
There's a few more weeks left in 2016.
We're already December so I want
everybody to enjoy the last month of 2016.
Have safe travels.
Again, our contact information is on the screen.
We would like to hear any feedback that you
would like to send us about today's seminar,
about what you would like to see in the
future and any questions you might have.
So I encourage anybody to write in
or contact us with that information.
Thank you again and have
a great rest of the day.
[ Applause ]